Dick Hillenbrand, a professional genealogist from New York.
February 23, 2010
Hi, Came across your Oswego county online partial deed index.
Very handy and thanks. I am curious as to what information you
have on these people. For instance what do you know for sure
and sources. What you presume and why. What land, estate
records, census, church records, etc. that you have on them. I am
most interested in when was the very last time they were in
Oswego county and then where do you find them next, and what
sources. It is my experience that everyone moved in either small
or large groups, or settled next to or near others that had gone
before them, or made efforts to bring other family members out
west with them. If you want to send me some data, research
outline, family group sheets, census reports, etc. I will take a look
and see if I can suggest something that you might not have checked
yet. I am very familiar with the migration pattern through this exact
corridor of Upstate NY, out to the upper mid-west. Often central
NY people would linger for a while in the western counties of NY
before following the setting sun. Sounds like a fun project.
Best regards.
Dick Hillenbrand
Upstate New York Genealogy
http://www.unyg.com/
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 11:57 PM, Lynn Ellsworth <lellsworth@frontiernet.net> wrote:
Mr Hillenbrandthe short answer and the longer one. The short because I
I enthusiastically respond. But, I need to do it in two parts:
want to respond to you while you're still interested. The long
one because I need some time to get all my "stuff" together.
The short one right now, the long one within a few weeks.
We know all we need to know about how Diana's children
were raised and how we descend from David and Diana,
what really puzzles us is who Diana was , where she was
born, and who her parents really were.
The Short one: We absolutely know:
1. Diana was the widow of James Look (a deed says "relict"
of James Look).
2. She later married my great-great grandfather David Ellsworth.
He moved down from Leeds, Canada to Oswego, but had
been born in Rutland, Vermont. They purchased land, near
relatives about 7 miles SouthWest of Oswego, NY on the
"road to Sodus Bay".
3. While in Oswego they had two children, James Henry
Ellsworth, born in 1835 and younger sister Lucinda
Sophronia Ellsworth, born after 1835.
4. David and Diana joined the "Mormon" church in about 1835
and the family later moved to the Nauvoo, Illinois area.
(But, did Diana herself really move with the family?)
5. She disappeared from the family shortly after this. David
and a stepmother raised her two young children. Diana lived
at least until 10 February 1840. (See #13, below)
6. The family moved from Oswego, NY to Nauvoo, Il, to
Payson, Utah Territory, then James' family to Walker,
AZ Territory (Taylor, now), then to Safford, Graham
County, AZ. Lucinda Sophronia's family stayed in the
Ogden, Utah area.
What we don't know:7. Who she really was, who her parents were, where she was
born, why she disappeared from the family, was it divorce?
her death? she just stayed behind? Where did David and
Diana meet? Where and when did they marry? When and
where did Diana die? Some family lore says in Nauvoo, Il,
but I can't prove that.
Family lore about David and Diana.
8. The 'greater' Ellsworth family believes her maiden name
was Livingstone, and that her parents were Nehemiah
Livingstone, Jr. and Indiana Foster, also that she was born
in 1811 in England.
9. One guess from some family members is that she mayhave refused to go West with the Mormons.
Other information of interest:10. An LDS Church record book from Payson, Utah in the
late 1800's, recording the parents of James Henry Ellsworth,
in two places, give Diana's maiden name as Herrick, not
Livingstone. Although the record asked for "mother's
maiden name" perhaps Herrick was erroneously recorded
as a later married name? See US/Can film #26401.
11. We can prove that Nehemiah Livingstone, Jr and Indiana
could NOT have been Diana's parents. Perhaps her brother
and sister-in-law, but not her parents.
Nehemiah Livingston, Jr and Indiana (Foster) were married
in NY in 1832, no child named Diana. Diana's oldest child,
James Henry Ellsworth was born in 1835. See Portrait & Biog.
Album of Otoe & Cass Counties, NE Vol II pp 900-902
This biographical sketch of Nehemiah and Indiana was written
while Nehemiah was still alive, late 19th century in Nebraska
where he was living at the time
12. See several deeds, transcribed by me and available at
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nyoswego/
See this site...Deeds and Wills http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nyoswego/deeds/livingston.html
13. Notice in the above mentioned deeds that Nathan and
Trustum Look witness James' deeds. Were they his brothers?
His sons? Cousins? Notice also that in one of the deeds that
Diana signs the deed with an "X" (illiterate) 10 Feb1840 - Israel,
Maria, David, Dianna Ellsworth sell 83.3 acres in Lot 23
to U.G. White. Includes parcel described in 1824 and 1826.
Deed Book30,pp480-2, FHL Microfilm 1,011,772
14, See this: http://insearchofdiana.blogspot.com/
My father spent about 20 years in genealogical researchbefore any computer could help him. Had he lived to our
day when we can do so much with computers I think he'd
be amazed at what we can do in genealogical research
now. He didn't spend all his time with Diana's problem,
but kept returning to it, never could "crack the code", so
to speak. I'm amazed at what he did find. Any light that
anyone could shine on this problem will be very much
appreciated. I thank you sincerely for your interest
and hope something can come of it.Lynn Ellsworth PO Box 776 ljells@kina.net
Eagar, AZ 85925-0776 ph. 928-245-5956
or 435-705-5397
Feb 26, 2010
Dear Mr. Ellsworth,
Well this is surely an interesting project.
Milton V. Backman did a lot of work on the Nauvoo families.
Well this is surely an interesting project.
Milton V. Backman did a lot of work on the Nauvoo families.
I will have to dig through some old research to come up with
an exact title, but he created a sort of census of saints at
Nauvoo from historical records. Perhaps you know of the
book. I just went on worldcat.org and typed in
'backman nauvoo' and there are over a thousand records
returned. This particular book should be of interest to you but
I do not think it is the one I am thinking of.
http://www.worldcat.org/title/people-and-power-of-nauvoo-themes-from-the-nauvoo-experience/oclc/49350354&referer=brief_results
This is very preliminary and I will mention the following only
http://www.worldcat.org/title/people-and-power-of-nauvoo-themes-from-the-nauvoo-experience/oclc/49350354&referer=brief_results
This is very preliminary and I will mention the following only
for a possible option that Diana might have had. At the same
time the saints were gathering and had gone from Ohio to
Illinois, there was a similar migration that came out of Oswego
county and went to the Racine and Kenosha Wisconsin area.
If you do some online searching of history of Kenosha, WI and
history of Hannibal, NY you will find reference to "The Western
Emigration Company". Here is one book, you will find many.
http://www.archive.org/stream/collectionsstat03unkngoog/collectionsstat03unkngoog_djvu.txt
I only mention this possibility because you seem to have lost
http://www.archive.org/stream/collectionsstat03unkngoog/collectionsstat03unkngoog_djvu.txt
I only mention this possibility because you seem to have lost
track of her about the Nauvoo time period. I have worked on
some of the Nauvoo people previously and in my opinion if
she does not show up there in documents that have been col-
lected, compiled and reported on, then she might have joined
people from another group and this Western Emmigration Co
was a pretty big deal in that day, though not many people know
anything about it now. I would keep an open mind to that or
some similar possibility. I also noted on worldcat that there is
a collection of Nauvoo photographs from S(amuel) George
Ellsworth, is he yours? If I were you I think that it would serve
a good purpose to go back to the LOOK information. I suspect
you have of course, but that is where you will find the best op-
portunity to pick up clues on early Diana. I am a member of the
HERRICK Family Association, and spoke at their annual
HERRICK Family Reunion last year in Albany, NY. I will
send a note to Richard HERRICK who operates their database
and see if any of your notes might tie in with anything they have
accumulated. I visited Nauvoo a few years ago, and have
visited many of the LDS historical sites in my 30-40 years of
genealogy trekking. Such a fascinating story and time period.
I do still work for a living and will not be able to devote
I do still work for a living and will not be able to devote
thousands of hours to this but will be very happy to give you
thoughts that pop out, so I look forward to your additional details.
Best regards.
Dick Hillenbrand
Upstate New York Genealogy
http://www.unyg.com/
Lynn,
What deed do you have than names Dianna as relict of ___ LOOK?
I find it interesting that the Hannibal, Oswego county deeds were
Best regards.
Dick Hillenbrand
Upstate New York Genealogy
http://www.unyg.com/
Lynn,
What deed do you have than names Dianna as relict of ___ LOOK?
I find it interesting that the Hannibal, Oswego county deeds were
recorded in Cayuga county, other than Humphrey HOWLAND
was a well known person in Cayuga co. The HOWLANDs of
Scipio were Quakers/Friends and there is much on them in print
and on the web. There is a Nathan LOOK in Virgil on the 1820
Cortland census. There are also several HERRICKs in Homer,
Cortland Co, 1820.
Dick
Dick
Dick, here's a transcription of the deed showing that Diana
was the 'relict' of James Look: deedoswny34p189-91.
doc 12 Jun 1841 - David and Catherine Ellsworth
sell 13.33 acres in Lot 23 to Rathburn Miller.
Dianna is now deceased *Deed Book34,pp189-91,
FHL Microfilm 1,011,774 This Indenture, Made the
twelfth day of June in the year of our Lord one-thousand
eight hundred and forty one Between David Ellsworth
of the Town and County of Oswego and State of New York
and his wife Catherine…
On 27 Feb. 2010, at 4:50 AM Dick Hillenbrand
Lynn,
Here are some random thoughts.
Partial will index Cortland Sampubco.com
LIVIGNSTON, ALMIRA P. CINCINNATUS NY-12-N-283
LIVIGNSTON, HATTIE E. MARATHON NY-12-X-429
LIVINGSOTN, PERCY H. CINCINNATUS NY-12-W-277
LIVINGSTON, HUGH G. CORTLANDVILLE NY-12-V-325
LIVINGSTON, JOHN CINCINNATUS NY-12-S-757
LIVINGSTON, JOHN D. CINCINNATUS NY-12-Y-573
(No HERRICK or LOOK wills listed in Cortland index)
(Checked Onondaga county online 'wills' index, no
LIVINGSTON, HERRICK or LOOKs listed.)
Have you checked Oswego county estate records for a pro-
bate or administration file of James LOOK?
Have you looked at the deed in 1828 mentioned where
Diana received the land on Lot 23 from: Trustrum Look,
Lucy Look (poss Trutrum's wife) , Nathan Look, Louisa Look
(poss Nathan's wife). Walter Harris and Thankful Harris to
the then Widow Dianna Look (relict of James Look deceased)
and afterwards, wife of the said David Ellsworth) now deceased
It appears to me that the LOOK names are likely children of
James LOOK, releasing their interest in their father's land to
James's widow Dianna. Thankful HARRIS is possibly a
sister and sister-in-law of Trustrum, Lucy, Nathan and Louisa.
Sometimes this type of deed is not in the grantee/grantor
indexes as it might have been handled in probate court.
Alexander LIVINGSTON witnessing all of those 1828,
post James LOOK's death deeds, would not be unusual for
a brother or close relative of the widow to be involved.
Those property divisions being mentioned in what looks
like one-fourths or one-thirds tells me this is the settlement
of an estate. I would dig real deep on each and every pos-
sibility of finding more information on Alexander
LIVINGSTON. A terribly common name, but stick with it.
A curious thing is how the heck does a female name of
"Indiana" appear in this time period? I would scour all of
the online records at Footnote.com in the hopes that some
LOOK/LIVINGSTON data might show up in an earlier
generation, say like Rev War pension records. Another
thing to consider is that township/town/county lines were
constantly changing during this period of time. The old
Hannibal township, Lot 23 finally ended up within the
now town of Oswego, after the Hannibal town borders
were defined. Did you ever find where Humphrey
HOWLAND got the lands in military lot 23 of Hannibal
township? He lived quite a long walk away from there
in Scipio/Aurora, Cayuga county. As I recall he could
have been a land speculator buying up good bargains.
Don't know for sure but there is a Howland's Island area
in what is now Montezuma swamp, only mentioning it,
no particular reason. It appears as though Diana/Dianna
as alive as of 10 FEB 1840, and that she was deceased as
of 12 JUN 1841, and that David had mourned long
enough to remarry before that date. Understandably
with two small children. So do you believe that David
and Catherine left after 1840 to go to Nauvoo? Do you
have census records on all of these people? Why in
your original communication was there a question as
to what happened to Diana?
Regards. Dick Hillenbrand
On 28 Feb. 2010, at 7:12 AM Dick Hillenbrand
And another thing... \grin/ OK, you got me. You have
created a massive amount of material on what you
could find about what you know and it is extremely
helpful. You are all to be commended greatly for what
you have done to date. Obviously you would work
on what you know and can trace. Now I want you to
step outside the box and chart what you want to know
and what you don't know. The former is easy, the
latter is very hard, but not impossible.
Here is what I mean:
You want to know who Diana was and who her parents
were and where she came from. You don't know when
she was born, where she was born, when she married
James LOOK, where she married James LOOK, was
she his first wife? So now you can approach this project
much easier by ONLY working on the LOOK family.
They are your ticket to discovery. James met her some-
where didn't he? In my opinion Nathan and Tristram
(varipus spellings) are on the 1820 census in Virgil,
Cortland county, NY. If I were you I would beat that
to a pulp. When did they arrive? Did they purchase
land there? Are there any type of court records there
regarding LOOK families, civil, probate, criminal,
anything? Cortland county newspapers are extant
that go back as far as 1814, I believe. You can pro-
bably order them on microfilm through inter-library-loan.
Have you gone to the Cortland County Historical
Society and spent a few weeks yet? You need to,
and here is why. If the LOOKs arrived in the Cortland
area before 1808 then their records will be in Onondaga
county. If you just contact CCHS through a letter, they
will put a volunteer on your query and that person will
go though some of the files and send you a report. You
might get lucky. Better you should go there and spend
several days in a row going over every possible lead and
thought that you have and try to get the ear of Anita and
follow her advice very closely. She will find things like
road tax books, that will describe where their houses were
and how much they were taxed and if they worked on the
road for their payment or if they paid fifty cents to not
have to do the work. This stuff is invaluable and you will
not get it out of a query letter. That is only an example,
you will have dozens of new resources and research
possibilities after such a foray. Want to know who people
in those days married. It was ALWAYS the same, they
married the neighbors! There were no roads to speak of.
When you look on old maps and see roads delineated,
these were nothing more than paths that you could walk
on, drive an ox cart on, and they were most of the time
muddy slimy messes, frozen ruts, or terribly dusty. There
were no paved roads of any kind. You never went far to
marry. So I would map everything on every single person
that might provide a clue. Using every kind of map
available from the earliest time to modern day tax maps
and even aerial photographs. You will get to know the
names of the neighbors, where they likely would have
sold their brooms or agricultural largess, and where the
sawmills were and where the footbridges were over the
creeks, streams, rivers, swamps, etc. All of this is im-
portant for studying your people in the time period of
interest. Where were the nearest cemeteries? Where
were the nearest churches? What religion do you think
these people practiced? In that early time period most
religious needs were filled by a guy who came around
on horseback or by foot once a week or once a month.
Those Oswego county deeds showing always the same
names means to me that they were all related. I think
the LOOKs came from Massachusetts, just an opinion.
If you consider the IGI info it looks like James was
several years older than Diana, might he have had a
first wife that died?
Have fun. Dick Hillenbrand
